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[Bryant]

First off I'd like to say hello to everybody on the board!
I've been into astronomy for a long time now, and I've just recently been looking into finally purchasing a real telescope. (My parents bought me some terrible piece of junk when I was younger, which perhaps explains why I refrained from buying anything for such a long time) I've been looking into purchasing a 8" celestron dob, because they are relatively cheap ($330) and have quite a bit of aperture for that money, which is useful, I assume, when you're near a city like Chicago.
Additionally, I figured it would be a good idea to purchase the $120 accessory kid, which includes several eyepieces, a barlow, some filters, and some other assorted stuff, but mainly just for the extra eyepieces.
I was wondering if this seems like a good scope choice for a beginning astronomer, because I'm kind of in the dark about what to expect from this. Also, I was wondering if the accessory kit is a bad idea, as I could see how like many department store scopes, it could be something people get sucked into buying. Would it perhaps be a better idea to buy seperate eye pieces seperately?
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this!

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

Bryant,

Welcome to the Chicago Astronomer and thank you for your first post. Hope to see more.

Great that you decided on getting yourself a decent telescope, and a dob is a good choice to start with. An 8" Dobsonian is a good, robust instrument that will show you many objects and will force you to learn the sky by reading the stars. Goto telescopes are a fine thing, but it "looks" for the targets for you, and removes the learning process. Take time to learn the sky and get aquainted with lifelong friends and you will never find yourself lost.

Most Dobs will come with at least two eyepieces - most likely a 25mm and a 10mm. These two will be a good start, but of course we all want more and better. It's the "condition" we all accept and empty our wallets in pursuit of this. In the long run, it would be cheaper to buy the eyepiece "kit". It has the case, wide assortment of eyepieces, (never enough), and filters.

Let me know from where you intend to purchase these items and include the website. I'll review it, and give you my humble opinion on the articles before you buy. Don't rush into anything, as many tend to do. I know, the temptation sometimes is overwhelming, but take your time, do your research and get the right tools for what you desire. Chicago Astronomer Bill always says "the right telescope is the one that you will use". We always hear stories about the scope that stays in the closet because of frustration, lack of knowledge or just too much to comprehend.

So, give us some details about yourself, where you are from, how you got interested and how you found us...and we will assist you in your astronomical needs that will last a lifetime.

[katodog]

Well, Joe, you're definitely right about emptying our pockets. At least if we are well informed and make the right decisions, our wallets won't jump up and run away.

Speaking from experience, when I started getting into better scopes, I couldn't resist buying more and more accesories. Every time I would get something new, I get the shopping bug and look for whatever I could to make the experience better. When I bought my 6" newtonian, I had to buy eyepeices. Couldn't resist. My choice was the Celestron eyepice kit, and it was a wise purchase. The eyepieces are perfect, and so are the filters. Of course, after that, I had to buy a better camera, camera adaptors, higher capacity memory for the camera, etc., etc., etc.. Then, of course, you have to buy cases for everything. Trust me, it gets overwhelming.

Dobsonians are perfect first scopes because you can get a bigger aperture for less money, and there's not too much hassle with setting it up and using it. You don't have to mess around with computer controls or alignment. You can just plop it on the ground, aim and look.

Apart from when I was younger, and my telescopes were of the McDade catalog quality, my first actual "real" telescope was a Meade Saturn DS114. It was $400 when I bought it (actually, my sister bought it for me). It was about as high tech as I could stand. It was a great scope to learn what's good and bad about motors and controllers. It was a decent setup, but as it got older and got more use, it started to show the signs of age. It developed quite a bit of slop in the motion. The tripod was very unstable. Soon, it started to loosen and every so often you would be looking through the scope, and it would seem like it was shrinking. That's because the tripod legs were sliding back up into themselves. The gearing kept loosening, and I would keep fixing them. After a while, it got to the point I couldn't adjust them anymore. Then the controller started to fizzle out. One of the speeds died, and that became more annoying than just loosening the motors and turning it by hand. So I decided to cannbalize it and put the tube on my equatorial mount. The funny thing is, the equatorial mount, ogether with the scope it came with,only cost $150, and has withstood alot of harsh punishment. Granted, it's not automated, but it's built pretty darn good for $150. It's built like a tank.

Anyway, too make a long story short, if I would have known then what I know now, I would have got a dobsonian. I could have spent the $400 on a bigger scope, and not have to put up with all of the hassles.

Any dobsonian would be a good choice, I myself would choose a Meade or an Orion. The Celestron eyepiece kit would be a perfect accessory to any scope. I have the set, and would never part with it. Other than a scope and eyepieces, I would try to stifle the shopping bug and stick with the basics. A good star chart, and patience, helps out, too.

Anyway, good luck on your first scope purchase.

[Bryant]

Alrighty, let's see here...

I'm from Glenview, for one. There's this nice big field next to my house, so that gets rid of having to deal with trees or anything. I was also thinking that an 8" dob would be portable enough to stick in the car, drive north a bit, and set up a bit away from the city.

In regards to the scope sitting in the closet, I'm sure it would be a lot less frustration than the 6" celestron on an eq. mount that I was looking at before. After reading the manual on setting that one up I got a little overwhelmed. Not to mention that the 8" dob is actually quite a bit cheaper. Its only 52lbs or so, not too heavy if you ask me, easy enough for me to carry around, so I don't think that would be much of a problem.

I'm not really sure how I got interested in astronomy... always have been since I was a kid, and just recently (last two or so years), I've been reading a ton of books somehow related to the subject, (Hawking's A Brief History of Time right now, for the second time) .

Let's see... oh, right, I found you guys when I was looking on the adler planetarium's website for anything that could assist me in my telescope search.

Oh, the prices I'd listed were as found on www.telescopes.com , the actual link for the dob I'm interested in is www.telescopes.com/products/celestron-starhopper-8-inch-dobsonian-25831.html

Tell me what you think.

Additionally, I realize that with a dob its difficult if not impossible to do astrophotography, and I am OK with that. First off, I'm not big into photography as it is, but I must admit it would be nice to take pictures of the things I could see through my scope. However, I have realized that it is a very expensive hobby, and would require me to spend much more money than it would to simply buy this scope. Therefore, I've decided that I can make a better call on how to persue that once I get more aquainted with my scope, and better realize my budget.

[stargazer]

Hi Guys

I will jump in here and give my two cents worth.

I own three different types of scopes. two of them homemade. Not to mention a tool box full of stuff to go with each one.

My first "real" scope was a 10" homemade Dob (Joe has looked through this one) the other two I own is a 120mm Ref and a 6" Newtonion on a EQ mount. For personal viewing I use the 10" more but for Outreach I use the 6". The 10" gives GREAT views hard to transport for me alone as it weighs 120 pounds. the 6" is easier. The 120mm has the go-to option but it sits in the living room.

For a first time scope I would say go with the Dob as they are easy to use and transport. Plus easy to set up.

The quetion came up and I ask this ALL the time. What do you plan on doing with the scope.? Planetary? Astrophoto? or just havin fun? What do you want to be doing in the next 5 years with the same scope? These need to be answered before you decide on what else to buy t go along with the scope filter wise. Being in the city I will tell you to buy a light pollution filter. a must if you want to see most of the nebula's. Dont get me wrong Im not the Queen of scopes but do know alot about them and have learned from the best out there. It took me a year to decide on my scope before we built it. Thats why I ask the questions I do. I also suggest a good atlas. I have a couple so if you want advice just ask. At this time we are planning and building a 23" research grade scope to sit in an observatory. My 10" is aslo research grade. I dont preach much about scopes but when it comes to the 1st one I would rather see someone get something that they will use and be happy with. Most people dont listen to me when I answer but you can either take my advice or not. I think under Stargazer thread is my 10". Right now Im waiting to see if I got the Outreach Program Cert as lord knows I do enough of it.

So in closing I would say for the best bang for the buck get the Dob but answer the question I asked and then we will help you some more pick out what you need.

[stargazer]

Well to answer the question of Astrophotgraphy through a Dob I do it ALL the time. I use film, digital and video. Dont get me wrong with what Im about to say but back in 2003 when Mars was really close my husband and I were taking some video tape of Mars, We just happened to catch a dust storm forming in the bottom of Hellis Basin. Two pics were shown to a friend along with two drawings I did. Well those are all in the achives of ALPO. So yes you can do photograhy through a Dob.

Becky

[Bryant]

Oh, I was under the impression that if you were wanting to get into astrophotography, you would probably want an eq mount.

I'd be planning to use the scope for planetary observing, of course, as well as lunar. Mostly just having fun, however. Just hopping from things that look interesting, and if I can get out of the city a bit, looking at some of the brighter deep sky objects would definitely be fun.

However, I'm sure I will be stuck in the suburbs most of the time, so it'd be really helpful if you could reccommend a decent light pollution filter. Hopefully one that doesn't cost more than the scope itself!

[katodog]

There's nothing that says you can't do astrophotography with a dobsonian. Most of my pictures come off of a scope that doesn't track. It doesn't matter if you have an equatorial mount, an altazimuth mount, or if you hold the scope with your feet. You can still get awesome pictures without having a certain type of scope. They all do the same thing, magnify what we see. If you can see it with your eyes through the scope, your camera will, too. I've seen great pictures come from dobsonians. It's not always the price of the scope that wins out. It's usually the aperture and the person using the scope.

If I were you, I would get really familiar with the scope before trying any photos. Tackle one thing at a time. Figure out everything there is to figure out on the scope. Then, when you want to start taking pictures, figure out everything there is to know about your camera. Then it will be easier to put the two together.

As far as light pollution goes, my cousin has light pollution filters and says they really don't make that much difference. I think they would work better for if you were smack in the middle of Chicago, or somewhere where your own eyes have a hard time seeing the night sky because of the lights. I have people nextdoor to me and around me that leave there outdoor lights on all the time, and there's street lights everywhere, and it hasn't bothered me, yet.

In any event, I'm sure that the people here on this site will be more than willing to offer advice. I've learned quite a bit from watching the posts and reading what everyone says.

Or at least they'll offer some good ribbing on your behalf.

[Bryant]

I'd probably be needing to buy a new camera if I were to start taking pictures, I think. The only one I have lying around is kinda.. well, just isn't exactly what I think of when I think 'astrophography'. For what its worth, its a Minolta Maxxum 3xi. If anyone has any input on that too, that'd be nice.

[katodog]

EEEEEEK!!!!! A FILM CAMERA!!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!

If it weren't for digital cameras, I'd be fishing instead of taking pictures. I've got entirely no patience whatsoever for developing film, and all the fun and excitement that goes with it.

But to answer your question: if you can use the camera, and it works, it will work for astro pics. The only thing is you'll have to figure out what exposures and films work best. You can do it the hard way, and try to figure it out yourself, or try and find someone that knows the camera and uses it for astronomy that could tell you the best way to use it. But if you are a camera expert, it shouldn't be a problem. If it has a 1/4"x20 thread, it will work with an eyepiece projection setup.

You could buy a decent digital that's not expensive that you would probably have a better time with. They're alot easier to work with, since you can erase what you don't like and you don't have to mess around with the whole film processing, uh, process.

Unless you like the whole darkroom scene.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

Bryant,

The Dob you have selected is fine one. Check out this review on both the Celestron and Meade Dobs. - ( www.scopereviews.com/page1g.html) Also, check out our buddy Chris from www.20/20 Telescopes.com. He's an accomplished astronomer and knows his merchandise. Tell him Chicago Astronomer Joe sent you and he will guide you to the right scope. At the Adler Planetarium we have a few of the Meade/Orions with good results and performance.

You didn't mention which eyepiece kit you were eyeing.

On astrophotography:

As a kid, I used to do astrophotography with a bellows camera and black and white film on a spindle roll. The later with a35mm SLR, and I must say it was fun, but no way will I indulge in that again. The fudge factor is just too great, film expensive and processing iffy. I will still do an occasional wide open iris star trail shot, but the days of thru scope film shots are over.

It's all digital baby!

I have yet to dive into the ccd field, Adler Telescope Operator Ron has graciously offer to lend me his, but I have taken some pretty cool shots - hand held - at the eyepiece. Great lunar shots, cool solar and average planetary. If you do go the digital camera route, get one like Kdogs, where you can adjust the time exposure and other controls. He has some pretty impressive shots here on the forum.

But, if you have a lap top computer, try CCD imaging. I have seen some good shots of deep space objects with them, even with an un-motorized dob.

Good advice your getting from our members...no extra charge...

[Bryant]

Sorry I forgot to mention the accessory kit I was looking at. The link for that is www.telescopes.com/products/celestron-eyepiece-and-filter-kit-1-25-inch-format-11535.html

I do have a laptop which I could use for future astrophotography needs, but it does sound like I'd need a new camera then. Seeing as I know virtually nothing about cameras, I think digital cameras would be a better bet anyways. I would really appreciate it if you could supply a link to perhaps a website which does detail uh... exactly how I would do any of this.

I did look at that scope review site prior to picking this dob as well. I hopped around the internet on beginners astronomy sites for about a month or so before I started narrowing down the possibilities for a scope for me.

[katodog]

That's the same eyepiece kit I have, and it's all I've needed so far. The eyepieces are excellent, and I can't see doing like some people and spend over a hundred dollars on one eyepiece as opposed to a whole kit for the same price. I can't see how the more expensive eyepieces make that much difference. Especially for me 'cause I'm an amatuer. I don't need my pics posted in the Smithsonian. I did get a bigger case, though, so I could put the camera, batteries, and other stuff inside. After a while, you end up with alot more cases than you need and that you can carry.

I spent $50 on the bigger case from Galyan's, and companies sell the cases for around the same price, but I found another case at Menard's for $19.99. It's the same size as the big case, and has the die-cut foam, but it didn't have foam in the top. That's easy to fix by getting a piece of foam and cutting it to size. I use the new case for my 20x80 binocs. They fit perfect.

[Bryant]

Alright! Well, I got the scope, and I have it fully assembled and everything. Its just past midnight now, and I spent the good portion of an hour earlier looking at Jupiter, playing with it on the different mags what notnot, and I'm fairly happy.

Two questions, however.

I can resolve Jupiter pretty well on my 6mm eyepiece, but when I try to use the 4mm, I can't seem to focus it. Is this normal for my scope or what?

Also, any suggestions on good beginning objects to look at? Jupiter is fun, yes yes, but its setting quite early now. Saturn's not out in the sky, which eliminates two really bright, easy targets. I figured this would be an ok place to ask, seeing as you guys know my scope, location, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated! And thanks so much for your encouragement on me getting my scope!!

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

Bryant,

Excellent that your new Dob has arrived and you have spent some time with it already. Any pics of the new tool?

It's ok...your scope is not faulty...You have discovered the frailty of seeing conditions on any given night. Your aperture is fine (8 inch), but the seeing conditions here around Chicago are really poor now...considering the heat and muck in the air. They all conspire against the astronomer when trying to kick up the magnification and I am surprised you were able to use the 6mm at all!

The higher the mag, the dimmer the image and the increase in unwanted disturbances viewed. Many a time conditions just won't allow any thing other than a midrange magnification. And also...Jupiter, if not high up at zenith or above the atmospheric trash, will glide through the mucky air and be just a blurry mess. One can even lose the Satellites orbiting it and bands.

I have read accounts on where the higher humidity is preferred during an observation session, where it allegedly acts like a lens, but I don't agree with that. I think the best views are when the temps are cool and the humidity very low. One reason I really like the fall observing sessions.

Right now at sundown, the best target to lose yourself in would be our Moon. With your dob, the valleys, mountains and "seas" will be the best for you presently. Every night, the lunar landscape changes and you get a new show. What's interesting to look for are the sunlit peaks of the mountain ranges peaking out of the shadows on the dark section of the Moon. Every phase up to the Full Moon is a good one. Full Moons in the eyepiece, although still cool, are rather flat and plain.

Now, if you want to get up in the early mornings, you can catch brilliant Venus and her "lunar-like" phases. Saturn in September will join Venus in the early mornings, then you can catch the magnificent ring system.

Did you get the eyepiece kit? If so, what came with it? If not...what are you using?

Let us know about your observing sessions, take a few pics of yourself and your new dob and enjoy.

[katodog]

Bryant, congrats on the new scope!! I'm waiting for mine to arrive. It's supposed to be here Monday. The only thing that stinks is I have to go to work before I can play with it.

Everyone finds out the hard way that the higher the magnification, the less detail you can see. Not only because of small apparent field of view, but also because there is less light transmission. Just think back to your cheapest scope and the tiny hole that was in the SR4 eyepiece. You were lucky if you could even see light through it at all. I have found that the best thing to do is use maybe a 25mm or 15mm eyepiece with a 2x or 3x barlow. That way, you get the higher magnification, and a larger field of view. It also helps if it isn't freaky hot outside. The heat coming off of nearby rooftops, and the Earth itself, tend to kill good views. You will see once it gets colder outside the views get better. The colder months have less dust in the atmosphere, and usually the nights are much clearer.

So far, I haven't had much issue with the city lights, or nearby street lights. Usually the stuff I look at is bright enough not to worry about light pollution. It would be nice if cities would start getting the lights that had the covers on them, so the light pollution would drop. Or stop putting a light every five feet.

I have plans, after my new scope arrives, to probably get a few good widefield eyepieces. I've been drooling over Orions Expanse set, and some of the ED-2 eyepieces they have. Seems like they are really good quality for a good price.

As I said before, I have the Celestron eyepiece set, and so far it's been perfect. The only thing is, knowing from experience, I don't normally go higher mag than 9mm. After that, the field of view sucks, and it's difficult to get good focus, if any at all.

Joe, to answer your question about the kit, if Bryant has the same one as me, it came with 5 eyepieces, 4mm, 6mm, 9mm, 15mm, and 32mm. A 2x barlow, and seven filters. The eyepieces are Plossl, and all are parfocal. The case for it is kind of small, and after I added extra stuff, I had to get a bigger case. Oddly enough, the eyepiece I use the most is the cheapo 25mm that came with my 6" reflector. That eyepiece is pretty darn good quality, considering the whole package it came with only cost $150. It has quite a decent fov, and the lenses seem like they are made pretty good. Obviously, my pictures come out really good, even with that eyepiece.

[Bryant]

Yes, I did get the eyepiece kit. So along with the 25mm that came with the dob, I now have a 32mm, 15mm, 9mm, 6mm, and 4mm, as well as a 2x barlow.

I also attempted, for the sake of trying to use the barlow, to use the 25mm with it, I believe (it was quite dark, eithher that or the 32mm), and jupiter came out fuzzy, but the magnification for that should be less than with the 6mm if I'm not mistaken.

I also have 7 filters, which I'm quite unsure how to use, or when I would use these, except for the moon filter, which seems self explanitory. They're the moon, red, magenta, yellow, blue, green, and another very dark one, looks like grey.

Also, sorry, no pics of me and the dob.. like I mentioned earlier, no digital camera, which would make that much easier.

Katodog --
Where I usually set up my telescope definitely isn't the greatest place, but its the best within walking range with my 8" dob. Its right next to a school which always has a few lights on to the South/Southwest.

One question about the barlows. My 8" dob has a focal length of about 1000mm, giving my 25mm a magnification of about 40x, so the barlow then makes that 80x, while keeping the same field of view?

[katodog]

If you want a good example of what the field of view would look like, try the eyepiece calculator,

www.scopesim.com/telescope-calculator.html?lid=text-start

It should give you a good idea of what the image will look like, and also gives magnification for whatever number you put in the eyepiece box. I usually don't bother with the field of view box, I just set it about 40.

Remeber that these are not exact, and will only be close. But they will be a good way to learn the difference between eyepieces with and without a barlow, and will give you a general idea of what will fit into a certain field of view.

You can find out the field of view for your eyepieces by going here,

www.celestron.com/c2/product.php?CatID=42&ProdID=271


It seems like you shouldn't have to much worry about light pollution. It's probably pretty close to what I'm used to. At my cousin's house, it's a bit brighter, but we've still gotten pretty darn good pics. I don't really get bothered by the light, but when I'm out at my in-law's outside of Galena, it's pitch black. That kind of spoils you and you don't want to come home. You can really tell the difference between here and there.

[Bryant]

Thanks for the sites that I can use to calculate magnification etc.

And thanks for the encouragement about light pollution! I suppose it can't really get any worse, perhaps if I go camping some time this fall I can pack up my dob and get a look at some dark skies for once!

[ercillor]

Hi,
I used to live in Chicago, many years ago (1955), and there was a mentor at the Lawson YMCA who started me off grinding a six inch Pyrex blank. Like so many other telescope projects it remained a 'work in stasis,' probably ending up as somebody's paper weight.
Not too long ago I decided to redeem myself by purchasing a 'first telescope' in the form of a Meade LXD75 Achromati Refractor. This seems to hae been my second mistake; Apparently the Gods do not want me peeping into their bailiwick now any more than they did in 1955
The problem lies in the mount design. Apparently the Meade LXD75 EMC is a mount which was designed in such a way that it can, under certain conditions, actually damage it's tracking motors. In 'goto' or manual mode it is perfectly possible to run the RA and the Dec motor housings right into each other with results that are really not good. I called Meade and their customer service manager, Ty Robertson, was able to reproduce the problem in Meade's lab. He told me that, in all honesty, he had never seen the problem before until just that moment.
Does anyone know what can be done about this problem? Right now I own a very expensive boat anchor/conversation piece and I don't want to have to wait another 54 years before finally gazing at the heavens.
Thanks