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[Al Degutis]

Distant object found orbiting Sun
By Dr David Whitehouse
Science editor, BBC News website

Astronomers have found a large object in the Solar System's outer reaches. It is being hailed as "a great discovery".

Details of the object are still sketchy. It never comes closer to the Sun than Neptune and spends most of its time much further out than Pluto.

It is one of the largest objects ever found in the outer Solar System and is almost certainly made of ice and rock.

It is at least 1,500km (930 miles) across and may be larger than Pluto, which is 2,274km (1,400 miles) across.

The uncertainty in estimates of its size is due to errors in its reflectivity.

Full story: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4726733.stm

[Centaur]

Very interesting, Al. Back in 1930 astronomers thought they were searching for a Planet X with 10 times the mass of the Earth. Pluto turned out to be so dim that they assumed it must be as black as coal. It wasn't learned until decades later that Pluto is 1/500 of Earth's mass and quite reflective. It's extreme orbital characteristics are more that of a distant asteroid and not that of a stable major planet. Although for many reasons I am not arguing that it should be designated an asteroid. If astronomers had been alert and not so taken with the notion of a planet being discovered by an American, they might have determined that Pluto belonged to a new class of objects.

Early 19th century astronomers may have been more reasonable. The first asteroid to be discovered was originally classified as a planet. But after several more were found, they realized it would be more sensible to place them in a separate category. Later astronomers might have learned from them and been less eager to simply discover a planet.

Clyde Tombaugh would have impressed me much more as a scientist, if he had questioned his discovery and investigated its characteristics more deeply. If he had done so, we might today be calling Pluto a TBO: Tombaugh Belt Object. That would have given Clyde more lasting and deserved fame. Our understanding of the evolution of the solar neighborhood would have progressed more rapidly. Let's stop placing significance on what our fourth grade teachers taught us by rote, and move to a more rational classification system for objects orbiting the Sun. Emotional attachment is not good science. Pluto must be accepted as one of many KBO's. These latest discoveries may put to rest the argument that Pluto should be classified with the major planets.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

And this object is quite reflective. I bet we gonna find many many more, and discover that water is quite abundant in space.

The ancient Summerians, (are there any other type?), wrote of a distant planet called Niburu that orbits the sun beyond Pluto every 36,000 years or so.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

Where is the 10th Planet in the Sky?

A map, made using Starry Night software, shows the position of 2003 UB313 in the eastern sky as of about 1:30 a.m. from mid-northern latitudes for the next several days. Seasoned amateur astronomers with large backyard telescopes should be able to find it.

=============

Quite cool that it's close to Mars.

[starbux]

admin said:

The ancient Summerians, (are there any other type?), wrote of a distant planet called Niburu that orbits the sun beyond Pluto every 36,000 years or so.

Well, if my memory of old Art Bell shows serve me, Nibiru is supposed to have a period of 3,600 (not 36,000) years. Back in the late 90's it was assumed by many that comet Hale-Bopp was Nibiru since it also has a period of about 3,600 years. With this discovery, Zachariah Sitchen does come to mind, though I wouldn't draw any conclusions yet.

[Centaur]

starbux said:

admin said:

The ancient Summerians, (are there any other type?), wrote of a distant planet called Niburu that orbits the sun beyond Pluto every 36,000 years or so.

Well, if my memory of old Art Bell shows serve me, Nibiru is supposed to have a period of 3,600 (not 36,000) years. Back in the late 90's it was assumed by many that comet Hale-Bopp was Nibiru since it also has a period of about 3,600 years. With this discovery, Zachariah Sitchen does come to mind, though I wouldn't draw any conclusions yet.

What has this board become?

[Maddad]

We were talking about this on another forum. At first they thought it might be twice Pluto's diameter. The assumption was that it would have the same reflectivity, but now they think it's much more reflective, which would make its diameter smaller.

Then they discovered that it has a moon about 1% the mass of the planet. Since our Moon is 1.2% the mass of Earth, this is a good match. Orbitals allowed them to accurately measure the mass of both objects. The planet masses 32% as much as Pluto does. If you assume the same construction, that puts its diameter at 68% of Pluto.

Before this guy, Pluto had by far the most inclined orbit of the planets at 17%. This new planet is inclined 28%, quite a bit more. As an interesting side note, its distance of 51 astronomical units a little less than double Pluto's 35 AU. This fits right into the general spacing of the planets.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

What has this board become?

It remains, as it always has, as an open discussion of everyone's contribution toward better understanding and appreciation of the sciences...regardless of origin, teachings or beliefs.

Everyone has something to share, it's remains with the individual to accept or dismiss the content...this is not the Spanish Inquisition and no one is forced to abide to one single viewpoint...the only rule here is to participate in a civil and non confrontational manner.

Myths and legends often are based out of fact and experiences, and I enjoy listening to all view points.

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On the new planet...

I wonder if...they ever discover a planet(s), with enough mass, that orbits the plane at 90 degrees, if it will be considered a planet as well?

And regarding the general spacing of the planets...the distance beween Mars and Jupiter is quite sizable and lends to the theory that it was once occupied by a planet. And what are we going to call this new planet beyond Pluto? Mythological references have been the standard, so I wonder what's on the burner?

I think we are gonna find a lot more planet sized objects out there...and not KBO's either.

Cool!... ;D

[Centaur]

I first commented on this Sumerian matter back in March on this message board. The supposed evidence seems to be a depiction within a raised relief. Below is pasted my earlier thoughts regarding the markings. I've included links to articles on the Sumerians reverenece for Venus and refutations of Sitchen's arguments. If you are a true believer, then read no further: it may spoil your fun.
____________

My first impression is that of the Subaru logo, which is a stylized representation of Venus moving through the Pleiades. Subaru is the Japanese name for the Pleiades.

Although Venus passes near the vicinity of the Pleiades every year, it appears quite close every 8 years. It was a fine sight last April. The next such close encounter will occur on 2012 APR 03, although nearly direct hits won't be seen until April of 2028, 2036, 2044 & 2052.

Many ancient cultures attached great astrological significance to Venus and her 8-year cycle. The position of the stars behind the humans in the relief is very much as a Venus-Pleiades conjunction would appear above the western horizon during the evening. It would not surprise me if Venus and the Pleiades are being depicted in the Sumerian artifact.


Click for Sumerian Raised Relief:

xfacts.com/x2.htm


Click for Subaru logo:

www.subaru.com/


Below are some links related to the Sumerians' reverence of Venus:

www.ancientx.com/nm/anmviewer.asp?a=22&z=1
www.aeonjournal.com/venus.htm
www.vt-2004.org/Background/Infol2/EIS-D9.html
www.experiencefestival.com/a/Venus_Transit/id/4468
www.plotinus.com/aphrodite.htm
www.pinn.net/~swampy/inanna1.html


Here are some refutations of Sitchen:

www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/planetx/nutshell.html
www.ramtops.demon.co.uk/siren.html
www.sitchiniswrong.com/

[starbux]

admin said:

On the new planet...

I wonder if...they ever discover a planet(s), with enough mass, that orbits the plane at 90 degrees, if it will be considered a planet as well?



Cool!... ;D

I think it's been shown that more massive objects tend to orbit closer to the plane of the ecliptic while low mass objects such as comets take the most eccentric and inclined orbits. After Pluto, Mercury is the most inclined, but much less so. I think big purturbations of an even more massive body would be required to send the average planetary body into a highly inclined orbit.

Interestingly, the asteroids seem to follow the pattern. The largest ones stay close to the ecliptic while less massive ones veer off in all directions.

There is an analogue regarding heavy elements and stars. Population I stars (like the Sun) which are rich in heavy elements orbit along the plane (equator) of the galaxy while older, metal-poor stars in Population II (such as in globular clusters) orbit our galaxy in highly inclined and eccentric orbits often purturbing one another's orbit if they get too close in approach.

[Al Degutis]

Unofficially, it is being called Xena by it's discoverers, leading to speculation that Xena will be the official name.

[Maddad]

Yeah, that's what I've heard too.

I'm wondering about the extreme inclination to the plane of the planets. If something were discovered way out, like the 90 degrees that Joe suggested, there'd be resistance to calling it a planet unless it was really massive. Suppose though that it was massive, say more so than Earth. If it's way out, and orbiting at 90 degrees, then we wouldn't have been looking for it which dispells the objection that we would have seen it by now.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

This is certainly something to ponder about.

Astronomers tend to concentrate their search close to the plane of planetary orbit, buying into the idea that all solar system planets occured during the early formation and stick to that rule.

But as we see with Pluto and "Xena", this may not be the case. Perhaps we will discover large planet-like bodies inclined superior than 20 degrees. If planets do orbit the sun at 90 degrees relative to the the inner planets, then our solar system would look like an atom...

I think when our optical resolutions gets better, we could spot exo-planets orbiting thier suns in all degrees, and therefore give us insight to our own system.