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[Alan]

Hello Chicago Astronomers,

I am new to astronomy and have just joined your group.
I had a nice talk with Joe earlier today and he recommended that I throw out my question to you guys. I am looking for my first telescope ( budget of $300-500) and would like to get the best possible resolution of the planets as well as some deep space structures as well. Do you guys have some favorite scopes in that price range? Please let me know exactly which models you feel are good.

Regards,

Alan

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

Alan,

Thank you for your first post, and registering as part of the ever growing Chicago Astronomer family.

Great to have spoken with you Tuesday afternoon. Between my cell phone cutting out several times, and my hurried activity, I am surprised we accomplished anything at all!

I contend that a lower end reflector will serve the needs of a child just entering the field of astronomy. A 4.5" is robust and tough enough to show practically all the major celestial targets needed to keep a young person interested. Of course, more sophisticated and serious scopes are available, but for $300.00 none would be of good quality.

Scott will receive a new ETX 90 soon, and that is a good starter scope as well. I have seen objects first hand, and they are an honest and true little scope. The ETX is a SCT that we discussed earlier. A few of us here have gone that route, and Chicago Astronomer Al has a 8" SCT. Some would say that a 4" refractor is the way to go. Refractors are great for planetary observation, but they can be quite pricey.

But the dobsonian telescope is by far the best value for the money. Really just a tube, and not very pretty, the dob's main advantage is the aperture factor. Bigger is better in astronomy, and one can get a good sized dob for the price range you mention. The light gathering capability is excellent as Chicago Astronomer Becky can attest to. She has a 10" dob, and with the proper eyepiece, has breathtaking views. I have peered through her scope on occasion, and the images are bright and clear. They are on the bulky side tho.

After weighing the cost, expectation and the depth of interest, you need to decide if you like the Dobs, SCTs, reflectors or refractors. I recommend two options to investigate first....

One is that we get together at times for mini star parties. There you may peer thru our armada of scopes which vary. But considering the bitter winter nights, we may not assemble again in force until the warmth of spring...

or...

Second, As a telescope operator at the Adler Planetarium, I have access to the many different scopes we have. On the first Friday of each month, we hold a Far Out Friday event for the public, and Telescopes are brought out to the Telescope Terrace for the public to view through. You can attend the next one, which will be on this Friday, the 7th of January from 6:00 to about 10:00. If it's clear on that night, we will be observing Comet Macholz...which will be an excellent first target for a beginning astronomer.

Either way, we will be here to assist you in your decision making. Take your time, and don't rush into anything.

Enjoy the Heavens.

[stargazer]

Alan,

Its true I have a 10" Dob and I love it dearly. I highly recommond the Dob. Easy set up and tear down. Joe is right the tubes may be plain and bulky but easier the handle when you have a larger mirror. I will admit the way my scope was set up I wanted to go extremely deep sky. (Seeing the effects of a black hole) so yes my scope is very pricey. But I will admit it has given me many a good views over the last three years. Now I will really get it into some dark skies south of here in Feb as I am going to the Winter Star Party. Yes I have had this scope is pitch black skies before and have seen things that most 10"ers cant do.

But for the money you want to spend I would go with the Orion XT6 for $ 359.00 or the Astroview 6 EQ for $369.00. Harden Optical has some good scopes to in that price range. I pefere to use the Dob, I also have a 6" on a GEM.

I hope this helps you make a descision . I know some people like the Dobs and some like the SCT or refractor.

Just my humble 2 cents
B

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

Also...

There is a local Chicago Area web site Mart for selling used telescopic equipment:

www.stargazing.net/naa/ads.htm

Run by the Naperville Astronomical Society, it a good place to start a search, and possibly get a very cared for instrument.

[Alan]

Joe and B,

Thanks for the excellent advice. I think I would like to go with a DOB based on your recommendations and all the internet surfing I did last night.

Joe - I will try to come to the ADLER tommorrow evening, I'm looking forward to meeting you.

B- it's funny you should mention black holes becuase I have been reading some of Stephen Hawkin's articles and would love to be able to see the effects of a black hole. Do I need a 10" Dob for this or is an 8" Dob sufficient?

I am very tempted to purchase either an Orion XT-8 (41lbs) or an Orion XT-10 (55lb). Although the base and tubes are apparently easily separated for carrying, the people at Orion tell me that most of the weight except for a few pounds is in the tube. Normally it wouldn't matter to me but I recently strained my back. Can either of you guys recommend a good 8-10" DOB that's not so heavy?

Thanks,

Alan

[stargazer]

Alan,

Part of the reason I did my scope the way did was I was studing Black Holes at the time and wanted more out of my scope then the average scope. As for the size of the scope seeing the effects of a Black Hole the bigger the better. I have seen strange things with my scope when we drove 2 1/2 drive away. I am hoping to make it back to the house again to catch them one more time. I saw something in Sag. If I were you and this is just my opinion I would go with the 10" You may not see what I do with mine as mine is custom and homemade but I think you will like it better then a 8". Like I said this is just my 2cents . Im sorry I like Large Light Buckets.

Becky

[Al Degutis]

Alan,

I don't have any experience with Dobs but here's my two cents:

While aperture fever (i.e. bigger is better) is always going to be an issue, be sure that whatever scope you get it is one that you will use regularly. Getting too big a scope is a problem. How can a scope be "too big"? If it's a hassle to take out and set up, whether in your yard or some remote location, then it's too big. I upgraded from a 4.5" reflector to an 8" Schmidt-Cassesgrain this passed summer. Occassionally think I should have held out for a 10" or maybe 12" but considering the time it takes to move the equipment outside and set it up, I'm glad I have the 8". Plus, the weight of the larger scopes are an issue. In fact, I'm considering saving up for a smaller scope, one that would be a quicker set up and more portable for trips. I've used my binoculars a lot more than my telescope in the last 3 months.

Just some food for thought.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

If it's a dob you are heading towards, perhaps this is a good place to look. Although I have no personal experience with them, I have read good reviews about Hardin Scopes.

www.hardinoptical.com/

Their prices are attractive, and he has a good selection.

The 6" scope on special is quite nice for $249.00...Hell, My 4.5" cost that much a few years ago!

Now keep in mind that a Dob may be hard on the back...as it cannot be adjusted in height. For long observational session, it may be a problem.
You will need to prop it up on a higher or lower surface to observe comfortably. (See the image with the girl observing that Hardin provides for the 6" Dob special.) And you cannot rotate the tube to get a proper angle, but that's a minor inconvenience.


Also,

Remember that the Adler event is on Friday, not tomorrow. I'm sure you knew that, but just to make sure. I'll be happy to meet you and your kids. We will have dobs there to peer thru.

[stargazer]

Alan,

Its true you can not adjust all Dobs but if you get the right one you can change it. I can on mine. I can rotate the tube in the holder. There is a simple way to do this with a store bought one. If you are handy with some power tools I can tell you how. It does make it easier for those long nights of viewing. I also have been known to use a chair to sit at the scope for drawing at the scope before I got the camera system we have. Now I just watch most of it on the tv as we can do live feed. This way both Bill and I can view at the same time, video tape it, and I can draw it out allat one time. Plus during the Mars Events we had lots of people looking at Mars at one time.

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask.

Becky

[Alan]

Becky,

I am taking you up on your offer to ask some questions!

How long would it take a beginner ( ie myself and a friend who is a very adept metal and wood craftsman -who also happens to be a spine surgeon - he likes to cut things) to make a basic dobs - say 10" or 12"
and what would the cost be?

That's inventive that you have a video hooked up to your dobs. Is it possible to take detailed pictures with a digital slr using a dobs ( for example if I used the Orion xt-8 or xt-10 with the canon digital slr that I have) ?.

Also several people have posted information on their websites indicating that they feel that once you go from an 8" to a 10" dobs it seems more important to be away from city lights and that there is more interference from "seeing". Have these been minor or major issues for you?

And for planetary and lunar viewing, how does a 8-10" dobs differ with a 4-6" refractor ( by one of the basic makers like celestron so that we are roughly in the same price point $400-800 - you can see that I am increasing my price range!). The info available in the sites suggests that a larger mirror or aperture should be the most important factor for all viewing but everyone seems to love the refractors for lunar and planetary viewing.

Thanks for all the help, it really is invaluable,

Happy stargazing,

Alan

[stargazer]

Alan,

ok here is the answers to your questions. First of all before you start to build the scope. I need to ask you some questions.

1. What to you intend to do with it. IE: Photography only, DSO,

2. If you had the same scope say three years from now will you want to change what you are doing with it. Will you still want to be doing photography.

3. How deep do you want to go.

Ok now that you have answered those questions. Those are very important.

OK now to the building of a scope. Once you have sat down and answered the question on what you want to do in three years. No they are not cheaper but you can make it the way you want. My mirror alone was $750.00. But now remember it was custom made for us. ( this was three years ago) We also bought a secdondary with the built in heater. so yes I went with the upgrades right from the start. You dont really want to build one then in a couple years want to upgrade the parts. Im saying this because you will have a box full of stuff no one wants. This is what we did. We sat down and first I came up with a set of must haves on the scope then we researched every option there was. Part wise. Did we want to have to lug out a blow dryer each time we went out to kill the dew or have the heaters built in where we could. How were we going to cool down the Primary. What size ep we wanted. When it came to the Primary Mirror did we want one custom or off the shelf. What kind of image did I want. Once we did this we knew where to look for the parts. Yes it took us a year from looking at the different parts to first light. To have a good mirror done like we did we waited about 8 to 12 weeks for the Mirror to be done. that wasnt including the coatings. We knew the gentelman who did the mirror for us so we waited for him to set up his new shop before he started on the mirror.

Now for the Planetary and Lunar detail. It all comes down to how good the Optics are. You can get great views on a 4" Ref with great Optics. You can also build a 12" Dob and have a bad mirror and get rotten images. Me personally I would build another scope (which we are doing. we decided to build one just for photography and research)

Now for the camera, I dont see why you cant get some good detailed shot using your camera. I use a 35mm Hennimex SLR I have gotten some great shots of the Moon and some of saturn. Cant forget my best shot of Orion. Yes I do fight the light pollution here so if I want to do some really detailed shots I go to a friends house about 2 1/2 hours away. The only problem with a digital is that you are limited to how long of an exposure you can do. I can do 6 hours if I wanted as long as I am tracking the object. The longer the exposure the better the detail. You really need a "B" setting on your camera. (for Bulb) and one that dont eat batteries to keep the shutter open

Sorry for the long post but I hope this answers your questions. If you have anymore feel free to contact me by IM or here.

Becky

[Alan]

Becky,

It looks like its a serious time committment to build a quality dob. If I had the time I would definitely build my own.

Alan