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[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

(Started by MicroNova and Moved from
Asteroids, Meteors and other Space Debris)

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Dear Everyone,

I want all skeptics to try to imagine what this world would be like if the media was not controlled by our government.

I have in my history of archaeology found perfect paintings and yes 3D sculptures of comets, and impacts that are beyond a doubt records of Ancient American Astronomers.

I sent the photographs of some of my archaeological finds to the NEO site at NASA and one of their engineers was kind enough to review some of my photos.

When he wrote back to me via email he said. I agree these are very interesting. Do you mind if I share these photos. And.....

These are the kinds of pictures that are kept from the public (or suppressed from public knowlege as forbidden archaeology).

So for the person who first posted this. It is probably the case that the NASA team did photograph the impact, took samples, dug around for debris and covered it up.

The reason is quite simple. What the public doesn't know won't hurt them.

Sincerely,

MicroNova
Antenna Engineer
Ancient American Archaeologist
Astronomer

P.S.

My experience in classified projects tracking satellites and the keeping secrets tells me you are absolutely correct. Don't let the skeptics rule the roost. Probably their IQ is either very low or they have a PHD!

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

(From Thecriticaleye)

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Micro wrote :I sent the photographs of some of my archaeological finds to the NEO site at NASA and one of their engineers was kind enough to review some of my photos.

When he wrote back to me via email he said. I agree these are very interesting. Do you mind if I share these photos. And.....


Ok first . Why would someone send " pictures" to Near Earth Observeing Of what exactly? N.E.O. part of J.P.L. wich is part of N.A.S.A. particularly pertains to the oberservation and mapping of ..... ahh yes!
NEAR EARTH OBJECTS ..
So i really don't think they would be intrested in "archeological" pictures.
Also since you yourself has these pictures. Are you supressing them yourself?
Please share with everyone!!! Then everyone can make an educated decission for themselves

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

(From Me, The Chicago Astronomer)

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There are certainly activities that the authorities control: chemtrails, Project H.A.A.R.P, stealth technology, color alterations of the surface of Mars, etc...

Without more generated reports of the people who lived near the alleged meteor impact zone is culled, I cannot say it occured. It would have rocked the Richter scales for miles and sent up quite a plume!

And, there are plenty of ancient astronomical artifacts from ancient cultures that display certain properties and data...not known until modern times. Much "lost" information can be harmful to social and religious beliefs. I can understand why some info is kept hidden, but don't agree with it.

I do agree in requesting the images that you speak of. It would very interesting indeed. I am in conversation now with a man who found a rock with ancient carvings of the big dipper...and the placement of the stars are in the positions where they should be thousands of years ago.

More on this when I gather all the final data.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

(From TheCritaleye)
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WOW !! Chemtrails ? .. H.A.A.R.P. ?
LMAO !! Although haarp is real there is nothing to it.
Other than the study of the ionisphere for better comunications. Wich is a fact and anyone in the world can personally go visit. (they have open house time to time)
Chemtrails .. There is zero proof of except if you want to "believe" in some crackpot page off of Jeff Rense.

Still the moral of the story. Anyone can make claims, especially on theinternet. Without concrete eveidence to back any of it up it is still just empty claims.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

(From me again, The Chicago Astronomer)

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I present...a chemtrail.

Circa: 22 Sept'04 - Chicago - 4:00pm

This day the afternoon skies were criss crossed with Chemtrails, and this particular one was laid just so, that the afternoon sun angled thru to create a mini rainbow. On my way home I had noticed this, and as an astronomer, always an eye on the skies. I had my digital camera with me and took a few shots.

This shot was taken directly above at zenith with the sun about 30 degrees above the western horizon. You may notice that the Chemtrail is much lower than the higher cirrus clouds in the upper atmosphere.

Contrails dissipate soon after exhaust...chemtrails linger on for quite some time, and spread. Contrails appear in the much colder and higher parts of the atmosphere, hence: Condensation Trails. Chemtrails are sprayed lower to the ground and appear to start and cease with a flick of a switch.

Still an unexplained activity. Purpose unknown.

Having quite a chuckle myself, but for different reasons.

Thanks!

[TheCriticalEye]

The picture you represent is what you " claim " as a chemtrail. In reality is nothing more than a "contrail".

Wonder who started this entire chemtrail thing i personally think it is hilarious.

[TheCriticalEye]

To add to the first post that "Micro" posted.
Why would someone send contrail pictures to JPL's N.E.O. project?
They have nothing to do with jet exaust studies.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

Sorry, but no...

Condensation Trails evaporate and vanish almost immediately. A common sight behind high flying military craft.

Chemical Trails do not, are lower and remain for hours.

So simple.

[TheCriticalEye]

I have to admit you are wrong.
You may have a preconceived idea that the government is doing something or what ever it may be.

Fact remains is what a contrail is.
But nevermind all that reality stuff. Just exactly what does a chemtrail do and what is it suppose to be composed of?

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

I have no idea what is being sprayed.

But many theories are: Inoculation, sunscreen, weather control or communication.

Preconcieved denotes a predisposed opinion on a topic without attempting an understanding the basics of the matter. Your assumption does not apply here.

Contrails are exhausted, linger for a bit and then evaporate...similar to one's breath on a cold day.

Chemtrails remain suspended for a great amount of time...

I applaud your cynicism and you are true to your screen name. Way to go!

[TheCriticalEye]

That is just it. By the authority of yourself, you already have a "preconceived idea" of what a contrail is or isn't and that chemtrails are real.

I recomend for you to talk to authoritive people that know quite abit about what contrails are and can do.

Contrails can linger and also can disipate quickly.
Like I have posted before.
It all depends on hieght, humidity , tempreture , and especially berometric pressure. I know that these factors are hard to consum but totally dictates wether a " contrail" lingers or not.

As for your idea of these so called chemtrails. You yourself say YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THRY ARE OR MADE OF ...
but also claim that it is a fact that chemtrails are real.
How can you claim something as fact or real with not knowing exactly what it is? .. " That isn't very sceintific at all"

[NatureDevil]

I don't know, nor does anyone else, much about exactly what the human brain is, how it functions, or WHY it functions.....

....but I know it is there.....and I know it is working......

NatureDevil

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

...and by the same measure....you possess the preconceived idea that chemtrails do not exist and are contrails.

It all depends on hieght, humidity , tempreture , and especially berometric pressure.

Contrails do not easily form and remain in the lower atmosphere, where it is warmer and wetter. Notice the images, not only here, but throughout the web of chemtrails. They are ALL in the lower atmosphere. Those white things high above the chemtrails are clouds...high cirrus clouds. The domain of the contrail.

If they were contrails, why are not our skies filled with them from commercial aircraft everyday? Weather conditions? Fine. Then why are chemtrails visible low in the sky, while at the the same time, commercial aircrafts are leaving none. Basic scientific sense would dictate that conditions are right for all aircraft to lay a trail. But it just isn't so.

I rather enjoy your attempts at criticism, but again thats your screen name.

[TheCriticalEye]

Yolur arguement is that "chemtrails" are real yet you dont even know what they are. How can this be?

You dont know what something is or what it is supposedly for but yet in your mind it exsists.

What exactly is low/hi atmosphere?
Commercial jets cruise around 30 to 35 thousand feet. Is that hi or low?

[TheCriticalEye]

Also what is preconceived is that chemtrails are fact or falacy.
I lean more to falacy because there is ZERO fact to represent such claims from reputable sources. As for contrails they are proven you can see them everyday.
And can be scientificly proven of what they are.

[MicroNova]

I will begin very simply and as professionally as I can and I hope everyone will actually enjoy what I am sharing with you.

The first verifyable Native American stone carving was of the big and little dipper with an extra star in the cup.

see:

http://snyder_kas.home.mindspring.com/For_Chuck/Bigdipper_rock_small.JPG

The extra star is also in this web site with more detail.


http://snyder_kas.home.mindspring.com/Indian_Stones.html



This site shows the simplest description and modus operandi involved in proving to some naysayers at work that indeed the stone that I had found in my research was indeed a carving of the big dipper and little dipper with an extra star in the cup.

1. I researched all the literature I could find on Native American Astronomy

2. I took the stone to San Jose State University anthropology department and recorded on tape my conversation with Glen Wilson the leading patina expert at the university.

Under magnification of a microscope the Anthropoligist indeed certified that the holes drilled into the stone were man made and of a different age than the stone due to the difference in color of the patina. Patina is the mineral deposites on the outside of the stone due to desolved minerals from rain and chemical action.

I also posted the same photo enlarged and inquired on the web for answers on the extra star from all astronomers who would be so kind to reply. One question... is there a record of an event in the cup of the big dipper .. or a star.

See:

paganastronomy.net/msgboard.mv?parm_func=showmsg+parm_msgnum=1000009

The holes were drilled in proportion to the brightness of the individual stars. The brighter the star the larger the hole. The author of this astronomical record was professional and I would say I respect his attention to detail.

I did get a professional reply from a college graduate studying Native American astronomy.

paganastronomy.net/msgboard.mv?parm_func=showmsg+parm_msgnum=1000015


Thus even though there was no record of this particular event in the annals of the astronomers of our time, it is recorded in other countries as an event similar to the Super Nova of July 5th A.D. 1054 which I also have a record of from the Native Americans.

The date of the event in the big dipper is more than likely around 650 B.C. Which I will tell you about later on how that date is derived.

For now suffice it to say that the web sites below show that I do not make claims without thouroughly thinking about my words. Words have spirit. They should not be spoken lightly. And I am dead serious about what I do.

But I have a great sense of humor so I'll try to get more details into this site when time permits.

I will comment on the Native American Legend ...

I found a book on the Lakota Indian Star Knowlege and it states: "The Journey into the Spiritual World"

When a Lakota dies, his or her material body returns to grandmother sacred below. The spirit rises up into the spirit world, returning to grandfather sacred above.


It is important to note that while the spirit travels from a material to a spiritual dimension of existance, both of these realms are called "sacred".


Formerly, there was a star in the center of the Big Dipper. Now, however, there is an opening or hole where the star was located. The Wenagi comes up into the spiritual world through this hole which was made when Fallen Star's mother dug out the first wild turnip.


The four stars of the dipper (1,2,3,4) are called in Lakota either the "carriers" or the stretchers. Wicakiyuhapi is literally, "man carrier".


Prayed to by the Lakota midwives. To Win, "Blue Woman", is a spirit who inhabits the area around the hole in the Big Dipper. To Win (or Tan Win, "Birth Woman") is called on to aid women in labor, easing the pain of childbirth.


"Blue Woman" also assists the spirits of newly deceased humans in being born back through the hole into the spirit world.

Now one thing that I do know is that from the detail on the stone, this was the man's job. He was the recorder. So when something big happens he has to record it in the history books which were stone not paper.

Now the stuff that makes up legends are usually true facts which then are turned into stories and then become legends. Thus if you hear a legend, you should listen for the symbols for the key to the event.

For instance ... Fallen Star's mother dug out the first wild turnip.

Fallen Star's Mother .... A star fell
Wild Turnip .... What does it look like? A wild turnip looks like a comet!

In this way one can recreate many historic records. It is exactly the technique that is taught by memory experts. That is... make a story with all the details in it and use plenty of actions for the story and action will allow you to visually remember the facts as long as you can remember what the symbols represent.

I have since found stone carvings in Korea and 2 in San Diego that show a gaseous cloud eminating from a star in the cup of the big dipper as well as 3 or more asteroids that accompany this cosmic messenger.

And with that I must bid you good night.

[MicroNova]

Thanks Joe,
Regarding Coverups.

As an engineer, an Eagle Scout, an astronomer, an archaeologist, inventor and basically lover of life I find it hard to listen sometimes to ranting.

My main joy is to share what I have found and learned with people. I hardly ever go to sleep because there is so much to see and do and learn about. The web allows us to share photos from all over the world.

Therefore when I saw all the pieces of a gigantic jigsaw puzzle coming into place from ancient astronomy into religion and all the nations and peoples of the world, I thought I should try to get the message out that our earth is fragile and was once nearly wiped out while intelligent individuals were on the earth.

I have posted below the most auspicious painting of a comet that broke up after striking either the moon or mars. It created three distinct trails of asteroids.

I know the moon was struck before and perhaps the back side is missing and I know mars was smashed before as it has a great depression and several extremely large vulcanoes. It may be that a comet smashed into mars and created three tremendous fountains of lava spewing into space.

These statements may seem rather bold or even ludacris for most individuals, however, I have studied the works of Velikovsky and others who tried to explain the Phaeton event or as we may know it as the story of Icarus. It is a story of a wayward planet or moon nearly burning up the earth.

I have to say the basis of my detective story started with the stone that showed the comet breaking into three. But many Native American records are scattered all over the Bay Area as we call the area near San Jose and San Francisco. The records are all over the state from San Diego to Sacramento and I suppose further North though I have not gone north of San Francisco with my archaeology.

I wish I had kept the copy of the letter I received from NASA as the engineer did state that these things should be posted on a web site due to adverse reaction by regularly established channels.

See:
Comet A
http://snyder_kas.home.mindspring.com/For_Chuck/nice_comet.jpg

Comet B Breaking Up
http://snyder_kas.home.mindspring.com/For_Chuck/debris.jpg

Comet C
http://snyder_kas.home.mindspring.com/For_Chuck/broken_into_3.JPG


This is just the tip of the iceburg!

[MicroNova]

I'm Back!

You can forget about the chem trails. Just study the painted and carved stones for a while in archaeoastronomy and you will see that there was a collision in space!!!! !!! No Kidding !!! !!!

The government doesn't want us to know that something could happen in our lifetimes so that is why some of the archaeology was covered up in the past. The web is making that too difficult. (and freedom of speach).

I have culled together just a few of my photos and I have more damning evidece of collisions but the problem is taking good jpg photos and taking all the air out of them to keep a web site from being 100 MB! I have over 5000 jpgs that span the globe and take about 3 or 4 GB on my hard drive.

I do like to showcase my own archaeology but in an attempt to find meaning in some of the shapes I refer to other findings from around the world. One can not date my finds because there is not any carbon in the rocks to use radio active carbon dating.

I'd hazard a guess of between 2000 BC to 650 BC for the events recorded.

This site is just a start. I'll try to over come the jpg delimma later.

best regards,

MicroNova.....

(you'll see who I am on my web site) Nice Guy! ;D

home.earthlink.net/~ancientasteroids/

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

There are certainly many mysteries out there that mainstream astronomy/science doesn't fully explain. The Sumerians write about a planet that was destroyed - located after Mars, but before Jupiter. And the remnants of that planet is now referred to as the Asteroid belt. The summerians also knew of the helio-centric solar system model, different sizes of the planets and even wrote about "visitors" from beyond the earth.

Velikovsky and his writings in "Worlds in Collision" were thought to be utter nonsense, but I'm not so sure about that.

The ancients knew a lot more than we give them credit for, and we are such a arrogant bunch to attempt to discredit them.

Too bad...but I find this area an interesting topic of discussion.

[MicroNova]

Joe,

I found a 75 pound carving of a comet and wonder if it could be the representation of Venus? I have been reading as much as I can since I started researching my own archaeological finds in California.

home.earthlink.net/~ancientasteroids/id7.html

Another theory that I have is that it is quite possible that the Native Americans did have a means of amplifying the image of the stars either with a lens or reflector. The majority of records here were washed out to sea, destroyed by earthquake, fire and/or destroyed by the Spainish.

The reason for my theory is that some of my painted stones show very close detail to telescope images. I'll post them later. But by gosh you would have to be awful close to this comet to carve so much detail. The head of the comet is there and the gaseous tail!

(Ergo I feel Velikovsky was correct in his hypothesis that the earth went through the tail of a comet)

[MicroNova]

For everyone's information there is plenty of study regarding Near Earth Asteroids and possibilities of a collision with the Earth.

The reason I wrote to the NEO group was to add to their database and to get verification that the painted stones were indeed the shape that a collision would have if viewed from Earth.

The response I received from the engineer in a written email was as I have stated... this is the kind of thing that get's suppress.

My intention was to get more information on the Native American Paintings which I believe are a record of the collision of a major body such as a planet/asteroid/comet/moon The paintings are real and genuine and validated by an anthropologist but the event is still something that an astronomer should explain.... but they can't! (they are not allowed to)

My Native American paintings and carvings are below:
home.earthlink.net/~ancientasteroids/id11.html
home.earthlink.net/~ancientasteroids/id8.html

From another web site you can get the same company line on supression of information:

Many NASA Abstracts concerning Planet X

FWIW, The NSA has made employees of Nasa and government officials and others to sign an agreement that they cannot divulge information about any catastrophic event that they know about. Military people come under this also. That is why you cannot find "official" documentation of this event. They aren't allowed to tell. These are all Nasa abstracts which are currently not available concerning Planet X. I wonder why???
see:
www.cyberspaceorbit.com/px_updated.html
www.cyberspaceorbit.com/Pxabstrax.htm

[Centaur]

I spent most of my adult life working in the TV news media. It is not controlled by the government other than basic FCC requirements for fairness and avoidance of indecency. In my capacity I was able to present whatever I deemed would be of interest to my audience. There is absolutely no desire by the media to suppress any matters of scientific or historical interest. Often however, a particular media outlet in prioritizing matters excludes items that it deems will not be of interest to most of its audience.

Yes, the government suppresses matters that it does not want to have known by potential military opponents. Occasionally they are overly cautious, as when during the flying saucer hysteria of 1947 the military referred to a crash landed fallout detector in New Mexico as a weather balloon. That led to some wild imaginings. When I was in the military and later with the FAA I had secret clearances and was privy to certain pieces of information. They were always related to military equipment or maneuvers. Archeoastronomy findings hardly fall in that category.

The government is composed of many people. The leaders change as elections occur. The subordinates are in constant flux. There is no one who can set up and maintain a nonsensical long-term policy to suppress non-military information. If anyone tried, the details of the attempt soon would be leaked to the public.

There are plenty of media production companies or publishers that are unscrupulous in presenting unconfirmed but sensational theories. Many others are more conscientious about presenting the truth. Any legitimate archeologist, professional or amateur, would be anxious to make his findings known. It would be virtually impossible to maintain a conspiracy to suppress well documented archeological evidence. There would be no reason to do so.

It is understandable that many submissions to the media by the public are filtered. Air time and print space are limited. There are plenty of crackpots out there who have strong desires to have their pet theories validated. But reality is not always as they would like it to be. Thankfully, the scientific community is generally conservative and makes new theories run a gauntlet of tests before they are considered to have been proven. Eventually, a few are accepted and our body of knowledge is enriched.

It you are a professional archeoastronomer, then you must know that the way to publicize your findings and theories is to publish them. That means either write a book or submit articles to professional journals. E.C. Krupp has written archeoastronomy books for McGraw-Hill, the same firm that published my financial book. Perhaps they would welcome a submission of your work. I for one would certainly be interested in reading about solid new research by any good archeoastronomer who is willing to present testable evidence.

[MicroNova]

Thanks for your thoughful reply and insight.

I agree with you on nearly every point. I have had correspondence with Dr. Krupp and several authors such as James R. Cunkle (Stone Magic of the Ancients).

I have been collecting information and some of their comments into a large data base. My gut feel for the archaeology is that the cosmic swirl fits with Velikovsky's theory of the origin of Venus.
see:
home.earthlink.net/~ancientasteroids/id11.html

The engineer below was excessively skeptic about Velikovsky's theory on the origin of venus until he did his math.... (it's a bit of babble but has merit in terms of the changing of a person's mind as investigation goes beyond the first gut feel)

www.skepticfiles.org/evolut/velikovp.htm

I do not want to publish and receive such backlash but was told to make the photos available so that others could use the knowlege and perhaps explain the shapes of the painted stones. Plasma has been suggested in several articals as a natural result of a nova type expulsion of matter from a planet.

The yin and yang do look like fluids that would float in space. I like to obey the laws of physics myself and thus try to be honest to the truth in engineering and in the possible interpretation of the meanings of the painted stones.

I could have just let the things (painted stones)lay on the ground but I thought that someone would be interested. It looks like there was some kind of collision in space, but I am not clear on the origin of the collision or the cause.

I do have two very interesting stones that have the background stars and incised orbits on them which I will put on my web site soon.

Referring back to the crash in Florida of a meteorite, if the object was a piece of space junk ie. man made by the government, that would explain the cover up.

Otherwise as you say, many mundane things fail to get into the media due to the fact that there is no sensational value. Or there is insubstantial proof.

I have found that many are interested in the discovery of the pictures that go with the words of ancient history that may have described the epic battles between the Gods in the heavens. If the comet paintings, and the plasma paintings were done real time then they are of value to only a very few who are investigating the Velikovsky events.

I am convinced after seeing so many cave drawings and painted stones that there was a series of near earth asteroids that eventually either fell to earth, onto the moon, or left earth orbit. But they were close enough to see, paint, and even carve likeness' or idols of.

Again I appreciate the honest comments you made and I agree with you. I especially appreciate you sharing the new information that it is rarely suppression of the freedom of speach that would hold back such an article. I was simply supprised by the engineer's statement that these things are usually suppressed. I only wish I could dig up his old email but it was left on a company computer at Space Systems Loral and is not available any more.


My insights come from tracking satellites and seeing the similarity of some of the orbits carved into stone. The ecliptic is one of the carved images I have seen. But when there are two or three ecliptics, then there is something flying near by. That will be my next photo on the web when time permits. It also has a red spot and a white spot which I assume are mars and venus on nearly the same orbits.

Sincerely,

MicroNova

[TheCriticalEye]

Just because someone publishes a book does not make their claims or work credable in anyway unless it is peer reviewed in that genre of science inwich they are making the claims of. As in theories they also are peer reviewed wether there is any merrit to them.

Me being the true skeptic that i am do not conclude anything of the fringe/ spsuedo scientific world of anything more than sc-fi enterainment. Now there are quite o few out there that like to take very little science fact twist it with alot of sceince fiction and scam millions inwich the millions will believe the moon is really blue cheese if someone says long enough they studied it and are supposed authorities on it.

Just look at the people out there
Mark H
azelwood
James McCanney
Richard Hogland
David Icke
Jeff Rense
just to name a few. These very people sit at fringe's doorstep with so little truth if any on them were pinocio their nse would wrap around the earth 5 times!

So do I look to the FRINGE and see any truth in it ? No i dont. I look towards todays sceince acadamia. the REAL fplks out there doing the studies and hard work.

I guess if folks want to stay blinded and ignorant by the very few people i named putting out nothing but trash then so be it. I just know that myself and my children are staying better informed and educated on fact from fiction. I dont even try to associate in public / or star partys wit the likes of these fringe / psuedo science believers.