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[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

I found this quite interesting about "primative" man sketching star maps on rocks and things...

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A prehistoric map of the night sky has been discovered on the walls of the famous painted caves at Lascaux in central France.

It is a map of the prehistoric cosmos

The map, which is thought to date back 16,500 years, shows three bright stars known today as the Summer Triangle.

A map of the Pleiades star cluster has also been found among the Lascaux frescoes.

And another pattern of stars, drawn 14,000 years ago, has been identified in a cave in Spain.

More here: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/871930.stm

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There is long lost knowledge out there waiting to be discovered once again. Knowledge perhaps passed on the ancient astronauts?

[stargazer]

If you think about how the Ancient astronomers and even the farmers knew the sky it is really amazing. How did they know what to do at what time of the year. Agfter studing the Star formations they knew when to plane the crops, when to harvest, when the weather was going to be cold.

Look at Stonehenge in England, or even the twin mountains in Mexico. We cant forget the caves that were made to help determine the Soltices. They knew more then we did or even knew now back when.

B

[Centaur]

It would not have been necessary to have the help of alien astronauts. Give our ancestors credit. They could see the star patterns and reproduce them in paintings. 16,500 years is barely a blink of an eye in terms of our evolution. We are an amazing species that has made discoveries and inventions without the help of things supernatural or extraterrestrial. Be proud of our legacy and carry it forward.

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

Somehow, man forgot what was once learned.

Through war, fear, politics etc...whatever the catalyst was. We had to drudge thru the muck to regain once mastered knowledge and skills. The Pyramids, Stonehenge, Easter Island, Nasca lines....one day we will know what they represent and true purpose was. It is said that we could not build the pyramids today. I guess if we did, there would be plenty of overtime and disability benefits to pay out!...

Let's hope we don't retrograde once again.

[MicroNova]

It is truely interesting the fact that we are walking on layers upon layers of ancient civilizations. Each layer of earth contains bits and pieces of those that observed the stars before us.

As a nice treatise on this subject I will show you some very fine examples of ancient star records that I have found myself in California.

The first find is the Big Dipper and Little Dipper. I found this on my way to lunch between the engineering building and the cafeteria where we would watch rocket launches of our satellites. It was later verified by an anthropologist at San Jose State University. And it has the big dipper the little dipper and an extra star in the cup of the big dipper:

i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/Big%20Dipper%20Little%20Dipper/Bigdipper_rock.jpg

This got me started on watching for more ancient star records. I actually found a pile of stones that had paintings on them of comets and astronomical events.

I found other examples of comets and objects in the big dipper for example in a cave in Korea (probably around the time of the Buddha) was a painting of three comets? And a large cloud in the cup of the big dipper:

i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/Big%20Dipper%203%20Stars/BigDipperKorea.jpg

It almost looks as if a star is being sucked into a big black hole. An artist conception of such an event is shown here:

i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/Black%20Holes/cygnus-x-1.jpg

So instead of beating around the bush I'll show you the link to a painting of the asteroid Apophis done by the Native Americans. This painting was discovered in Folsom California:

i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/Apophis_Chaco/1CrescentMoonAsteroidComet---1.jpg

Now before you say Who! Hold On. This is pseudoscience! Please look at the following Apophis location that was backwards projected by Starry Night Pro at a date of April 18th 685 BC:

i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/Apophis_Painting/4_18_685_BC.jpg

It is highly likely that the native eye was enough to see much of the detail on the little lamb we call Apophis. It is due to come back in 2029 at 1/10th the distance to the moon. This puts it under the orbit of our GeoSynchronous Satellites!

For a nice photo of Apophis see below:
i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/Apophis%20Folsom%20CA%20Painting%20and%20685%20BC/10_09_e-1.jpg

Notice that the little lamb has a tail!!!! In other words a small rock on the right side of the kidney bean shaped body. There is a lot of loose rock on Apophis. Thus the second body that is painted on the stone may have been breaking up and attracted to the larger body of Apophis. The smaller body is probably what was seen a a snake with it's stream of smaller stones trailing behind.

The full photo of the painted stone is shown below: Notice the crescent moon, the breaking up pieces following in two parabolic trails and the lamb shaped Apophis.

i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/Apophis%20Folsom%20CA%20Painting%20and%20685%20BC/skimmer.jpg

Therefore I would urge everyone to keep your eyes open for holes in the rocks that may be more than just holes.

For instance, I just attended a talk on IR&D in the Defence industry at one our our companies new buildings. And I spotted another drilled stone with Scorpio drilled into it:

i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/Scorpio_Rock/Scorpio_Rock_Original.jpg

Now it was quite clear to me that the stone was used by Native Americans and had drilled "stars" in it. The best way to confirm a find like this is to take it to an Anthropologist and look at it under a microscope. I take a tape recorder and ask permission to record the findings. The first Big Dipper Stone was verified by an expert in patina at San Jose State University. His name is Glen Wilson. He really knows how to tell if holes are man made by the different colors of the patina on the rock.

See:
i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/Triangle%20Cone%20Hats/P1010119.jpg

and:

www.sjsu.edu/depts/anthropology/people/wilson.html

Once you verify that the holes are man made and that they are fairly old, you might even try to use Starry Night Pro in Backwards time to better match the drill holes.

One thing is for sure, you don't have to look very far for evidence from the past that can only be read by an astronomer. The field of study that this falls under is Archaeoastronomy. There is only one university in the U.S. that has a degree in this field. But since I used to track satellites and am an avid rock hound, it was quite a joy to find some of my best "star rocks".

I even got a letter from Rusty Schweigart and he forwarded my painting of Apophis to the head of the Apophis tracking and response group who intend to prevend Apophis from taking out our Geo's.

You can tool around in my main directory for more photos, before I write a book on the NEO's of the past and "Gods Rocks!".

Regards and Keep looking up .... and down.

MicroNova

i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/MicroNova_2006/P1010014.jpg

[-=CROMAN=-]

I realize the last posting was in 2006 but this is a subject I am interested in! My approach to life is somewhere between the scientific and the paranormal. While I feel that science has made huge advancements to our "current" iteration of human, I feel that there are many things which our current level of science can not explain. The ability of our ancestors to successfully create and manage complex mathematical formulas and chart borders on the unbelievable for me.

Our science tells us that up until about 50,000 years ago "men" were primarily a hunter gather type utilizing basic tools. After which an evolutionary leap took place and we became "more human". They developed languages, simple writing, rituals and ideology of gods. It was a drastic change in the way early humans lived and thought.

While I am not going to try to convince you that ancient astronauts, for lack of a better term, had anything to do with our progress. It does make a good argument in support for what micronova wrote above.

I thought about this subject long and hard for many years. I looked at it through religious eyes as well as scientific and drew my own conclusion. I concluded that at some point in our history man was given a "boost", if you will, by a higher intelligence. Just what this higher intelligence was and or is remains a mystery to me and everyone else who have pondered this thought. I can sit here and have the pyramid or Myan debate for hours but what really stirs my imagination is just how long we have actually inhabited this world.

Think about it for a moment. Think about how far we have come since newton gazed through his telescope in 1668. Think about the time between Double Helix discovery in the late 1950's and our accomplishment of decoding the entire genome sequence in 2003! In earth years it is but a speck of sand in the hour glass.

What would make you think that we are the first here? Perhaps millions of years ago an advanced civilization had taken root, our original fore fathers if you will. What if they had fled our earth long ago due to an extinction level event like a gamma rays , asteroid impact or any of the other dangers that exist to this day.

What if one day they came back to our planet and saw that life has indeed survived. What if our dna was so close a match to theirs that they gave us the "boost" which sped up development in our ancestors?

Have a read of the great Indian Epic, Ramayana. A 5th - 4th century B.C. story filled with stories of flying machines and of great wars.

"The Pushpaka chariot that resembles the Sun and belongs to my brother was brought by the powerful Ravana; that aerial and excellent chariot going everywhere at will .... that chariot resembling a bright cloud in the sky ... and the King [Rama] got in, and the excellent chariot at the command of the Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere.'"

How about Ezekiel and his wheel? What a great sheepherder account of a UFO landing. There are to many stories and ideas that science nor religion can just wave off as fantasy.

Tell me sheep herder, if you were in your field 6 thousand years ago and saw a shiny, fiery object come out from the place you attributed to ( insert your god here ) what would you think? And as this shiny , fiery chariot stretched out its legs to the earth ( landing gear? ) and sat there breathing fire ( drive hum? ) Would you run away or drop to your knees in fear of running?

If our civilization, today, were to be wiped out, in a million years there would be nothing left. Time, weather, erosion etc... would make short work all the effort that man had erected both good and bad.

Perhaps the cycle would begin again as it may have time and time again in our earths past?

[Centaur]

Jan 24, 2011 13:51:00 GMT -6 -=CROMAN=- said:

I realize the last posting was in 2006 but this is a subject I am interested in! My approach to life is somewhere between the scientific and the paranormal. While I feel that science has made huge advancements to our "current" iteration of human, I feel that there are many things which our current level of science can not explain. The ability of our ancestors to successfully create and manage complex mathematical formulas and chart borders on the unbelievable for me.

Our science tells us that up until about 50,000 years ago "men" were primarily a hunter gather type utilizing basic tools. After which an evolutionary leap took place and we became "more human". They developed languages, simple writing, rituals and ideology of gods. It was a drastic change in the way early humans lived and thought.

While I am not going to try to convince you that ancient astronauts, for lack of a better term, had anything to do with our progress. It does make a good argument in support for what micronova wrote above.

I thought about this subject long and hard for many years. I looked at it through religious eyes as well as scientific and drew my own conclusion. I concluded that at some point in our history man was given a "boost", if you will, by a higher intelligence. Just what this higher intelligence was and or is remains a mystery to me and everyone else who have pondered this thought. I can sit here and have the pyramid or Myan debate for hours but what really stirs my imagination is just how long we have actually inhabited this world.

Think about it for a moment. Think about how far we have come since newton gazed through his telescope in 1668. Think about the time between Double Helix discovery in the late 1950's and our accomplishment of decoding the entire genome sequence in 2003! In earth years it is but a speck of sand in the hour glass.

What would make you think that we are the first here? Perhaps millions of years ago an advanced civilization had taken root, our original fore fathers if you will. What if they had fled our earth long ago due to an extinction level event like a gamma rays , asteroid impact or any of the other dangers that exist to this day.

What if one day they came back to our planet and saw that life has indeed survived. What if our dna was so close a match to theirs that they gave us the "boost" which sped up development in our ancestors?

Have a read of the great Indian Epic, Ramayana. A 5th - 4th century B.C. story filled with stories of flying machines and of great wars.

"The Pushpaka chariot that resembles the Sun and belongs to my brother was brought by the powerful Ravana; that aerial and excellent chariot going everywhere at will .... that chariot resembling a bright cloud in the sky ... and the King [Rama] got in, and the excellent chariot at the command of the Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere.'"

How about Ezekiel and his wheel? What a great sheepherder account of a UFO landing. There are to many stories and ideas that science nor religion can just wave off as fantasy.

Tell me sheep herder, if you were in your field 6 thousand years ago and saw a shiny, fiery object come out from the place you attributed to ( insert your god here ) what would you think? And as this shiny , fiery chariot stretched out its legs to the earth ( landing gear? ) and sat there breathing fire ( drive hum? ) Would you run away or drop to your knees in fear of running?

If our civilization, today, were to be wiped out, in a million years there would be nothing left. Time, weather, erosion etc... would make short work all the effort that man had erected both good and bad.

Perhaps the cycle would begin again as it may have time and time again in our earths past?

Uh, oh, pseudoscientists are once again invading our scientific forum. Wishing something were true does not make it so. Solid evidence combined with a rational theory is required. Then it must pass the gauntlet of scientific peer review.

Advances in human knowledge are quite understandable without invoking the supernatural or the extraterrestrial. The principle of Occam’s Razor strongly suggests that the simple explanation is likely the correct one. Humankind progressing on its own is the simple explanation. Others involving fanciful ideas that may appear simple, actually require far deeper theories to explain their core foundations. Making farfetched connections between ancient writings and wild modern conjectures is hardly good science or history. Unfortunately, some cable TV channels unashamedly dispense nonsense, because it attracts credulous audiences that buy sponsors' products. Sorry, but we can indeed wave these off as fantasy, unless and until someone provides proof and not just what sounds cool.

Our bodies and brains have been continuously evolving. At times certain individuals have made important discoveries or inventions that were passed along to neighbors and then became spread widely, especially if they aided survival. The really big intellectual and societal advances began about 10,000 years ago when someone discovered that a seed could intentionally be planted and its fruits harvested. Whether this was serendipitous or the result of reasoning, it worked. There was no need for some outside being to pass along the idea. The concept of agriculture really took root, if you will forgive the pun. This led to food surpluses that allowed some group members to avoid not only hunting and gathering, but also farming. They could develop skills that led to the contemplation of a variety of intellectual matters.

The brains of small children are programmed to assume that parents are all powerful and know everything. That's an instinct encoded into our genes through natural selection because it aids survival. As adults we think we have dispensed with this belief, but it lingers too often in too many of us who cling to notions that their “must” be some entities more powerful than us to have helped bring us where we are today. Give our ancestors credit where credit is due.

[-=CROMAN=-]

Pseudo here

While I do believe in the scientific method and hold true to peer review. There are simply some things that it can not explain. Many a scientific "fact" have been disproven when the technology caught up with the peer approved speculation. The Razor principle can not be applied here as it is flawed.

Occams Razor would suggest that the classic physics is simpler than M-Theory so classic physics wins out. I'll go no further on this, to tired.

You nor I simply do not have the answers to many questions and it is our free thought that will lead us to those answers in time, possibly. To quote a great thinker.. "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing..."

Anyway... I agree to disagree with you at this point.

[Centaur]

I realize that making up fanciful explanations is more fun, but when the accepted albeit mundane model appears quite reasonable, then those who wish to claim something extraordinary need to provide extraordinary proof. Could it be that that your “great thinker” is trying to say that even he does not know what he is talking about when he makes his statement?

I would suggest that those who apply the scientific method come closer to knowing something than those who invent unsupported and unnecessary, although cool sounding or comforting explanations. To those who gleefully accept wild conjectures presented by unscrupulous cable TV channels to attract credulous audiences of buyers of sponsor’s products, I suggest that keeping at least one skeptical eye open can help prevent brains from spilling out of a mind that may have been kept a bit too wide open.

[-=CROMAN=-]

Centaur,

Are you are assuming that I obtain my information through "unscrupulous cable tv channels"? My reasoning comes from years of studying both sides of the fence. I am a comp sci grad , class of 1998, of the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago, with an undergrad in beer. I consider myself somewhat able to form an educated opinion =)

I perch myself in the middle of the proverbial fence in order to view both sides equally. In doing so I have not been able to say that I am 100% certain on anything, I am not God.

What I am certain of is my history and the various holes in which science can not plug up. It's not a crime to form an opinion my friend, even when it does not fit the model.

And the great thinker I was referring to was Plato.

Cheers..


P.S.

The history channel has some good shows coming up ! =)

www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens/