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[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

I was listening to a scientist on the Coast to Coast radio show this morning, and was intrigued by a theory that was discussed.

We all know about the speed of light being 186,282 miles per second..and rather constant. And that light photons penetrate the dark. But the theory is that darkness also has a speed...as it mostly permeates the visible universe, and something that we have largely ignored. There is more dark than light in the universe..and what are it's properties?

It is the yin and yang of elemental science. If light can be measured....why not dark? Are we going in the wrong direction figuring out how to reach the speed of light, where in fact we should be investigating harnessing the speed of dark?

Something to ponder.

[NatureDevil]

I am reading a novel right now called "The Speed of Dark" and that idea comes into play.

A character suggets that perhaps the speed of dark is faster than light because it has to always keep ahead of light.

I personally see dark as simply the absense of light, kind of how black is the absense of all color. But anything is possible.

NatureDevil

[Chicago Astronomer - Astro Joe]

I think that the properties of dark have not been properly investigated. Example...We can measure "Wet" it's composition, it's electrical conductivity, it's dimensions etc...but we can also measure "Dry" with similar parameters.

Same with...let's say..."Wind". We can measure it in all kinds of ways, speed, time, direction, containments etc...but also..the activity of wind exists in "Air", which can also be measured. Is the absence of wind mean that there is no air? No, the air is a part of the wind, but could dark also be a part of light?

Granted, the speed of dark is much more of a obscure and non-tangible theory....currently. But I think more study needs to be made in this area. If light passes thru dark, does it "push aside" dark matter? Or is there nothing there to push aside. Nature abhors a vacuum, and there should be something there in the dark - equal to light. It just can't be "Empty". When a beam of light stops...does it travel on it's course like a continuous rod of light...or does dark squeeze it along it's path?

Maybe it is a pseudo science, but we won't know until some thought is put forward.

My brain hurts.

[bobroude]

Joe, the speed of dark can be a very profound question. The only way I can approach this is to ask what is dark. The only answer I can think of is space itself. Well now we get into a real can of worms, does space move? Is space a thing? Does it have properties such as mass, volume, frequency and energy? Is it continuous or in units? Hold on a minute! Is this science fiction?
As a matter of fact there are a lot of brilliant people working on these questions now. The Quantum Gravity people are starting to lean toward theories that break space into divisible pieces. Particle physics says there is no empty space but a quantum vacuum with huge amounts of energy. The Relativity people say mass and space are some how connected. But none of them are directly saying dark empty space moves. Alan Guth’s expansion theory does however state that in the early moments of the Big Bang space expanded much faster then the speed of light. Well this sure sounds like movement to me.
Personally I believe empty space moves at 2 speeds. The speed of light and instant expansion at great distances. My model of gravity space is a sort of pushing force but I see it more as a force of mass being carried along by moving space. I will try to make sense of this as follows.
Briefly I will attempt to explain my understanding of the connection between mass, energy and gravity and how this relationship leads to a dynamic, expanding and slightly massive gravity space with some thoughts as to the mechanics of gravity. The following is simplified with no acceleration. We are looking mostly at a single rest mass particle. It gets very complicated with GR and also very interesting and I am currently working this out.
MASS
All massive particles exhibit quantum states of uncertainty. Some feel this is because the particle oscillates in and out of our observable existence, but it does not leave our dimension of existence. I feel, it exchanges with a partner or partners of equal energy during a phase transition. These hidden partners need not have the same identity, but must have equal energy. The local identity is remanifested when it receives energy during the transition. Also all massive particles manifest fields of space, energy and gravity. Sort of following ideas of the Loop Quantum Gravity people.
The location of the hidden partner is a possible link to gravity and space.
GRAVITY SPACE
Let's say gravity manifests from mass oscillations as a field and forms a large shell comprised of many small pieces. Multiply mass times the speed of light squared and this is possibly the number of individual gravity space units manifest by mass at rest with each oscillation. These are formed into a sphere with the mass at dead center. A thin sphere wall is manifest and the area of each gravity space unit is dynamic. I feel the gravity fields must collapse inward toward the mass like a collapsing bubble. The total energy of field remains the same as it collapses into smaller space units. The number of space units is not diminished and remains constant.
When the collapsing individual space units making up the sphere shrink to possibly sub Planck area cubed the sphere surface becomes a horizon or max gravity and vanishes from Euclidian geometry to reappear again instantly out at the fringe of gravity field. The sphere volume inflates instantly out at the fringe of gravity field, like spooky action at a distance, and then collapses back to the mass at C. When collapsing it appears the speed of dark is the same as the speed of light. The minimum field diameter is equal to the number of units of gravity space at Plank volume cubed forming a sphere and is the point where the wave converts and re-inflates space at the gravity field fringe. The re-inflation occurs in a spaceless dimension so expansion in time is not necessary. At this point dark has infinite speed. The full size of field manifest at the fringe and area of individual gravity space units is still a mystery to me but it seems to be related to the reach of gravity’s attraction. Perhaps an exact measurement of the distance between galaxies when they start to repel away from each other could yield an answer to this.
The convergence of different collapsing gravity fields may act upon the space between the masses forcing attraction, and or possibly voiding the space between masses. Or possibly some property of the ZPF of the gravity space moving to the larger mass acts upon lesser massive objects by accelerating them into the larger mass. Does the ZPF contain a Graviton like particle having energy and momentum? This particle would push not pull.
With each oscillation of the mass particle a new dynamic gravity space field is generated and this fills the volume of the sphere with slightly massive and energetic space in dynamic collapsing units that still has the angular and inertial momentum of the host mass. All space as we know it is manifest from mass and energy and there is no empty space without a gravity field.
Is this gravity space field empty? I feel it may be responsible for the Quantum
Vacuum Energy. If so then there is a direct connection between the gravity space field, vacuum energy and mass particles. The masses partners could make up the field of Quantum Vacuum space and gravity. Without a gravity field there is no space field. From this it seems space is dynamic, always moving to mass and increasing exerted forces. Does Gravity Space = mc^2?
MASS ENERGY AND EXPANDING SPACE
When extra energy is added to a gravity space field the field fringe expands. Black holes are a major contributor to expanding space. Black holes are gravity at its finest moment.
We can now observe as well as model black holes effects mathematically. Events outside the Horizon are somewhat understood. It's when we reach the Horizon things are not clear. Maybe the horizon is a 2 dimensional bubble wall, only 1 Plank length thick made up in gravity space units the same way as shown above. The outer side is the edge of so-called observable space and the inner side is non-local. Inside the horizon wall is a different type of dimension. A spaceless dimension! Not even empty space as we know it but lots of energy and information exchanges.
At the horizon the collapsing gravity space field vanishes when it reaches the wall
along with everything else. Where does it go? The collapsing gravity space field
reappears instantly out at the fringe of the gravity space field where it started from but the mass that vanishes is another matter. The mass is stripped of identity of form but the energy is not lost. The identity is lost at the phase transition when mass is converted to gravity space units.
When mass is swallowed it adds extra energy to the gravity space field and the total gravity field space is expanded due to conservation of energy. The radius and amount of mass is proportional to the radius and strength of gravity field. So the horizon wall expands along with the gravity field space out at the fringe of gravity's reach. The black hole expands along with the space it creates. If a black hole is not consuming matter it will eventually evaporate into an expanded space field due to quantum changes of state. Neutron star collisions also may contribute to expansion of spacetime. It appears dark space is allways moving.

As to your question "Are we going in the wrong direction figuring out how to reach the speed of light, where in fact we should be investigating harnessing the speed of dark?" we have a very long way to go.
Robert

[Alan]

I had a very interesting discussion with a friend on this topic. I think one of the key points is the problem of the cosmic horizon. Since the supernova data based on standard candles was published in 1998, we have suspected that the rate at which galaxies move apart has not only increases linearly with distance from the earth but actually that this rate is accelerating over time. So far this data has been supported by the WMAP and SDSS data.

Now to me, the most interesting thing is that the galaxies aren't really moving that much but that new space is expanding between galaxies - this is being driven by dark energy, a force that I believe physicists will have to account for in their unified theory as the fifth fundamental force. The interposition of space occurs at a rate which ultimately moves the more distant galaxies away from us at greater than the speed of light - this does not violate general relativity in any way.

The implications of this data are: - there are galaxies that are moving away from us faster than the speed of light - so we can't see their light - we have a cosmic horizon. So just a ship on the ocean appears to sail out of sight - we can't see the majority of the universe past the horizon. Note that the age of the universe and the distance to the cosmic horizon are the same, as would be expected by this analogy.

This means that we don't know what the true mass, density, volume, or shape of the universe are. Because of dark energy it certainly looks like the universe will end in a big frieze rather than a big crunch. I'm surprised Hawkings didn't figure this out before - a lot of the ideas he presents in Brief History of time are now defunct.

To me dark energy is the most interesting question in cosmology. What came before the big bang is even more interesting but can't really be studied - at least we have a chance of making some progress with dark energy.

Alan